Hey Morgan; I will just fire a few things out there for consideration. Sometimes when I say things, somebody takes me the wrong way and tears into me for what they THINK I've meant; I, feeling the need to defend myself, argue back even though I'm defending a position that isn't mine and would not normally defend anyway. That might have been the case with your dad. I don't think that he meant that some lives are worth less than others. In fact, I think that one reading of your dad's statement is absolutely right. The soldiers ARE expendable. What does that mean, though? It just means that somebody gets to make a decision to sacrifice their lives, and that invariably those decision makers are not in harm's way (Cf. The great Will Hunting rant about working at the NSA: "Now the politicians are sayin' 'Send in the Marines to secure the area,' 'cause they don't give a shit. It won't be their kid over there, gettin' shot. Just like it wasn't them when their number got called, 'cause they were pullin' a tour in the National Guard. It'll be some guy from Southie takin' shrapnel in the ass."). This can suck for you if you're not the one making the decision, and especially if you disagree with it. I would never downplay the role of officers (or enlisted men and women, for that matter), but even their input is confined to the parameters set by elected officials and bureaucrats. Most of their "parameters" make me sick, and so I'd never want to be in the position of having to lick their asses. Then, in a bar with some buddies in uniform, some guy would yell at me about this or that, and I would defend a position that wasn't mine... b/c, well, that's what some of us do.

Pause. Every person is vital to every operation, from the commander-in-chief to the kid sitting in the recruiting office. The dictates of humanism teach us that every human life is inherently valuable. I think that you can agree with those ideas, but nevertheless affirm the statement, "Those lives are expendable." Probably not, but it's not as egregious as you might think.

hey hon..I'll be on irc tonight if you wanna get on and talk..imma email you too..

Anyone DUMB ENOUGH to want to join the military should be allowed to join.
and G.I. Jane is a stupid American Propaganda movie
Bill

Yah, I see what you're saying Ako, and to a an extent, one must agree with the statement, "Those lives are expendible", whilst agreeing to the position that every person is vital to every operation. Otherwise nothing would get done because no one could afford to risk dying.

Aye, the Officers are still bound by the global direction of the political side of the government and so must work within these boundaries. I don't know what life inside that box is like, but at least I will know the details of what needs to be done, and how to do it and somehow that makes me feel better than how I think I would feel making military decisions without a military background. True, I'll more than likely be following orders that can be traced back to a politician who has no military background and could be doing a very stupid thing like Vietnam. However, in either case, I will have control only over how I proceed and being in the front lines where I can take immediate action to adjust to emerging situations makes me feel most at home. Call me a control freak, I don't know. And in neither case do I want to be thinking that the lives on the front line are expendable. If everyone can come home, everyone will, and being in the front means I have the most pull in executing that decision and making it a reality. Frankly, that's a feel-good.

As for the Bill Hicks statement, yes I've heard it. How about the people in the world who didn't want to join the military and become military targets but were instead targeted by a horrible government, who turned an army against them and became targets of genocide? I bet they think they're REAL stupid for... for what? They haven't done anything besides exist in a nation, or follow a religion, or look a certain way, but they're being executed. Think that's right? I don't. Think that's stupid? I do. Thing someone is going to do something about it? Not the Bill Hicks' of the world. Funny thing is though, Mr.Hicks-wannabe, it could possibly be your ass I'm protecting one day and you know what: that doesn't bother me in the least.

Of course the G.I.Jane movie can be used as propoganda! Saddam used Black Hawk Down as propoganda to show the Americans are not invincible, rely too heavily on technology, go into places where they're not invited and get their ass kicked. I'm sure snippits of my babble can be used for propoganda to support gerbil domination of the province of Alberta. What was stupid about the movie? I thought it had a good message. You don't like the fact that Demi Moore's character could become a SEAL? Against women's rights? Are you a lesbian hater? Clarify your stance next time and try not to lable too many things at once as DUMB, you just may belong there too.

I feel like I should post a comment here even though this article is so old, because I was in a very similar position to Anesthetic about a year ago. I was trying to decide whether to join the military or go to law school. My father made similar kinds of statements about enlisted folk, saying things like they are the first to die, blah blah. He even wanted me to talk to a U.S. Air Force General, a friend of my uncle's, who is forever an asshole in my mind because he refers to enlisted folk as, "the shit pile." (I think it must be an air force thing, because I've never heard army, navy, or marine officers talk like that).

I don't really fault my dad. I think he's just worried about his son. He wants to see me succeed, he wants grandchildren, and he wants to have me around. It's a little selfish, but he doesn't want to see me die. I can understand that. I bet your dad feels the same way, which is why he makes those kinds of comments.

I also want to say in response to the comments below that NO man is expendable. That's why the mantra of the U.S. special forces is, "leave no man behind." There are countless examples of soldiers who went back into the heat of battle to save a single comrade, including many during the real-life incident portrayed in the film Black Hawk Down.

That said, those who voluntarily enter the armed forces make a conscious decision that they are prepared to lay down their lives in defense of their country. These volunteers put their lives, quite literally, in the hands of their commanders, and their civilian leaders, who may order them to their deaths. These volunteers go willingly, not because they have determined that their lives are expendable, but because they recognize that *someone* must go. Someone must make the sacrifice, or no one will be able to enjoy peace, security, and freedom. This fact doesn't change just because a stupid commander happens to be in charge, or some moron politician has temporarily siezed power.

Does that make these people expendable? Hell no. It makes these people indispensible. Without them, the rest of us wouldn't be able to enjoy the peace and freedom that we take for granted today.

Most commanders and politicians recognize this fact. But they also have the responsibility to protect their society from aggression, and sometimes that means putting people in harm's way. Those people are NOT put in danger because they are expendable. They are put there because, well, someone has to be. It's about necessity. Ordering people to make that kind of sacrifice is something that leaders must do to preserve our freedom, our security, and our peace.

Well said Kevin. I'm pleased that we see eye-to-eye on this issue. And I know my dad is protective and wants me to do better than he has in life (though with a PhD. in Chemistry and an MBA in Finance and lots of money, I don't really see how I could POSSIBLY do better, except be happier which I already am). You're right, those people who volunteer (not that it was always a volunteer-majority occupation) are the ones who are indispensible. No man is expendible. And damn the officers who call the non-commissioned members 'shit piles'. Without the non-comms there would be no need for the comms. I'm handing in my papers to be processed in hopes of joining the infantry reserve as an officer cadet. If I make it all the way through, whether or not I go regs or not, it will be me who sets foot in a danger zone first, and me who leaves it first. My duty will be to the mission but secondly to those I command and it will be my responsibility to put their lives in front of my own, whatever that requires me to do. One of the reasons I'm not as eager as my dad to join the corporate world when I finish my MBA. Everyone is out for themselves and will backstab you.